Building An Empire! Zeljko Pavlovic - Director Vivaldi Music Academy

Want to know how to go from zero students to 4,000? Then this podcast is one you cannot afford to miss. Director of the Vivaldi Music Academy in Houston, Texas, Zeljko Pavlovic gives an amazing interview detailing his journey from humble beginnings to multi million dollar music schools. An accomplished violinist and Bosnian refugee, he has literally lived the American Dream and on this podcast he shares how he got there. Whether you have five students or 500, you can learn a lot from his story.

More about Zeljko Pavlovic, Founder and CEO of Vivaldi Music Academy 

His North American debut performance of the Mendelssohn violin concerto with the Frisco Symphony Orchestra received great acclaim as being “reminded of Fritz Kreisler, there was such natural elegance in Pavlovic’s playing” (The San Francisco Classical Voice).

With his father as his greatest musical influence and a musical heritage that spans two hundred years in his family, Mr. Zeljko Pavlovic began his music education at the age of 3 in Sarajevo, Bosnia. After leaving his hometown, Mr. Pavlovic went on to study at the University of Novi Sad Academy of Arts at the early age of 16 as one of the youngest students. He earned his master’s degree in violin performance from the Royal Conservatory of Music in Liege, Belgium and won several national and international competitions throughout his career.

As a recitalist, he has performed throughout the United States and Europe. Having developed an equal passion for orchestral playing, Mr. Pavlovic was appointed Associate Concertmaster of Duluth Superior Symphony Orchestra. He was also a member of the Louisiana Philharmonic. He performs regularly with the Houston Symphony and was honored to perform at Carnegie Hall in New York City and in the United Kingdom HD Odyssey Tour. In addition he has had the privilege of sharing the stage with the Houston Symphony in performances of legends such as Tony Bennett, Lang Lang, Itzhak Perlman, Joshua Bell, Emanuel Ax, Yo Yo Ma, Smokey Robinson, and Andrea Boccelli.

Having seen first hand the positive impact of music on individuals and communities and as the Founder and CEO of Vivaldi Music Academy, Mr. Pavlovic offers innovative and engaging music programs and serves on various the Board of Directors. Mr Pavlovic was recently named as an honoree for Houston Business Journal's 40 under 40 Class of 2015 and Most Admired CEO in 2020. He enjoys spending time with his two very energetic young children.

Author of "Failure Is Not An Option: My Story of Business, Survival, And Success in Life" Pavlovic shares his life story after his incredible escape from war-torn Bosnia and subsequent arrival in the United States to the opening Vivaldi Music Academy in 2013. The school became an overnight sensation, and since then it has grown into one of the largest music schools of its kind. His unique business acumen has earned him international attention—and now he is telling that story in his own words.

About Vivaldi Music Academy 

Vivaldi Music Academy has been setting a new standard of music education for the past eight years, and has earned numerous accolades along the way— including National Music School of the Year in 2014, Inc. Magazine’s 5000 fastest growing companies list three years in a row, and is one of Houston Business Journal’s 100 fastest growing companies in a three year streak. 

Transcript

Intro: Welcome to another edition of the Music Academy Success podcast. Music Academy Success is the largest and number 1 program for music school owners. Since 2008, master business coach Marty Fort has worked with school owners and teachers in 44 states and on 6 continents. On the Music Success Academy podcast, you’ll hear interviews with music lesson industry leaders so you can learn how to better your business by getting more students, keeping students longer and building the music school and lifestyle of your dreams. And now, here’s your host for the podcast, CEO of Music Academy Success, Mister Marty Fort.

Marty Fort: Welcome to the Music Academy Success System podcast. This is Marty Fort here, your host. I am the CEO of the Music Academy Success program, which we call MASS. MASS, since 2008, is the world’s largest and leading program. We work with hundreds of music school owners all around the world on 6 continents. We work with music teachers that teach in their homes. We work with music teachers that teach in our student’s homes. We work with small schools, 50 to 100 music students, mid sized schools with 500 students. We even work with large schools that have 4,000 students, like our guest today. I, myself, have 1,500 students in 3 locations. They are the largest schools in South Carolina and what I do is I help music school owners to grow their businesses, grow their enrollment, fix their student retention and a variety of things with our coaching and our live events. We enjoy doing this podcast. We bring you guest experts in the music education field. Some are MASS members. Some are just different authors or celebrities and we’ve got a lot of great episodes planned. So, keep checking out the Music Academy Success podcast, subscribe to it on iTunes or check out our website, musicacademysuccess.com. But today, I’m very excited to welcome our special guest, Mister Zeljko Pavlovich, Director of the Vivaldi Music Academy. I wanted to have him on today. He’s got an amazing story on multiple levels. He started with really zero students. He’s got 4 locations, 4,000 students today. He’s an amazing musician. He’s played at Carnegie Hall, all over the world. He’s a Serbian refuge. He’s got a great American Dream story that’s been featured on major news outlets and publications. So, I’m so excited. You’re going to learn a lot from him about many different things, but let’s go ahead and bring him to the podcast. Welcome Zeljko. How are you doing today?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Thank you Marty for having me. I’m doing great, wonderfully. Such a pleasure to be here.

Marty Fort: You know, you’ve got an amazing story as a performer, a teacher, a school owner, an author. We’ve got a lot to discuss. We could go for 5 hours. We’re going to stick to our normal podcast format. Let’s talk about your early years. Zeljko, tell us about your musical training from a young age to the conservatory and beyond.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Well, yes Marty. I come from a musical household. So, both sides of my family, everybody plays an instrument, my grandparents, great grandparents. It’s been in the family for over 200 years. So, it came very natural to me. I started playing violin when I was 3. I used it as a toy. From there on, I got my formal education. I studied in Serbia and then, after that, I got my bachelors and masters at the Royal Conservatory of Music in Belgium. I was fortunate enough to study from a very early age with some of the most amazing mentors and coaches and professors in the violin world. So, I was very fortunate to have that opportunity to study with them. I came to America 23 years ago as a refuge from Bosnia. I was 20 years old and I could barely speak English. It was those kind of adversities that make us who we are today.

Marty Fort: For sure.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yeah.

Marty Fort: And how and when did you start teaching?

Zeljko Pavlovich: I personally have not taught one lesson at the Vivaldi Music Academy. I approach the  business from a different perspective. My talent as far as teaching goes with grad students and undergraduate students. So, a little bit older. So, that’s my strength. But it’s important to realize your strengths and weaknesses and I’m very well aware that I [BLANK] to teach little kids and beginners and little 4 and 5 year olds. I knew that I’m not capable of doing that, which is fine. I had no interest in doing that, but I had the interest on the business side. That’s when the instinct kicks in and you hire people that are better than you. So, as far as my teaching goes, I always taught graduate students and undergraduate students.

Marty Fort: Got you. I’ve done a lot of the same. I’ve taught children, but I’ve taught at university for 6 years teaching intro to music, applied guitar, music business, that kind of thing. Teaching graduate students, teaching advanced students. What birthed Vivaldi Music Academy? What birthed your school and what was that time like Zeljko?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yeah. So, I was playing for the Houston Symphony. I always wanted to do, I had the business bug in me actually, since a long time ago. Since I moved to America, I had that bug. I wanted to do something. So, I tried many, many different things and some I failed, some I was not that interested and some were just unimaginable to me, I was not able to do. So, I never found that passion in a business, the specific business before Vivaldi. So, when my son was about 3 or 4 years old and I started thinking about music lessons, I searched and I couldn’t find anything of that caliber. I could not find high quality music school and that’s when the light bulb went off and literally, that night, I came up with a name. I came up with a logo and I came up with a concept and I kind of had a very, very clear idea of what I want to do. You know, it’s one of those magical moments when all the light bulbs go off. As the entrepreneurs, we get that rush. So, I got the rush and I just dived into the planning.

Marty Fort: Absolutely. So, fast forward to today Zeljko. What does Vivaldi look like now?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Well, I believe we’re one of the largest music academies in the US. We have thousands of students. We have 4 locations in Houston, Texas, in Houston area. We are expanding at an incredible pace. I think we are going to, in 2021 and 22, we are going to open locations beyond Houston. We’re going to stay in Texas for now. I mean, it’s a very exciting time for us, even with COVID and everything that’s been going on. As an entrepreneur, we love growing and this is a perfect opportunity for us to capitalize on and just don’t stop. 

Marty Fort: Absolutely. And you always are creative. You’re always prolific. You’re always doing a lot of cool stuff. One of the things that’s interesting about you Zeljko is you’re kind of like the king of destination concerts. And what I mean by that is, since I’m familiar with your work, you take your students all over the world to the top halls. Take us through some of the places you’ve taken your students in the past few years. Where did you guys go? What was that like?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes. Well, the 1st idea came 3 years ago. I was in the lobby of Music Academy. I saw this brochure sitting on the table and it was some kids performing at Carnegie Hall. It was a beautiful picture. That’s when the light bulb went off and I said, oh my God. I have to do something like this. I remember the feeling when I performed at Carnegie Hall for the 1st time and it was just something very, very special just to walk on that stage. And so, that’s immediately, I went into action and made it happen. We made phone calls and made it happen because I wanted our students, beginners or any level to experience that kind of feeling of going on stage of Carnegie Hall. And that’s how we actually all started. Once we went to Carnegie Hall, it was so unbelievable and it was so incredible. We’ve had kids as young as 4 years old to actually adult beginners who have not played an instrument but have played for a year and then they went to Carnegie Hall. I mean, there’s just, as a business owner, as a musician, that’s a beautiful thing to see. That’s how I decided, well, many other amazing music halls in the world and that’s how we really started. I decided that every summer, every year, we will go somewhere special and we went to, after that, we went to Kennedy Center in DC. I took them to Venice, Italy. We performed at the Vivaldi’s Church where Vivaldi actually used to work and perform. It’s just exciting time. I mean, we are planning many, many other adventures for our students. So, that’s one of the benefits of studying with us. It’s a lot easier for my teachers to tell the kids, well, you have to practice because you have a Carnegie Hall performance coming up. I think I make it a little bit easier on them.

Marty Fort: And I remember when you launched that for the 1st time and from what I recall and if I’m correct and correct me if I’m not correct, but I think at the time looking back, you weren’t really sure how it was going to be received.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yeah.

Marty Fort: I think the story goes that it number 1, sold out and number 2, wasn’t there an early line? People coming early to start the line? 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes.

Marty Fort: Tell us about that.

Zeljko Pavlovich: I mean, yes. You probably remember the call I made to you when I got that idea, actually. I said, Marty, I thought of something crazy. You’re probably going to think I’m nuts. We want to go to Carnegie Hall, but you reassured me it’s a fantastic idea and we were on the same page. But that line was incredible. I really wasn’t sure how it was going to be received. I mean, it is an investment for parents. You have to fly to New York. You have to take that time out of your schedule and whatnot. But when people heard, they lined up at like, 3 in the morning. There was a big line around the corner and people were basically camping out because it was 1st come, 1st serve. So, that was incredible to see. When we came there in the morning, it was chairs. There were people standing in line. That was just an incredible feeling to see. 

Marty Fort: Yeah, and it’s validation Zeljko. I get questions all the time and it’s one of the reasons I like doing this podcast. People as me, what’s the state of the industry? Or, I just had a meeting last week with a pretty high level official in my area and he asked me, what’s the state of live music? And what you’ve experienced with what you’re doing, we’re taking our students at Columbia Arts Academy to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame this August.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Amazing.

Marty Fort: We are performing outside on the lawn in May, since we’re not out of the woods with COVID yet, at the Koger Center for the Arts is where all the big concerts are held, all the major artists.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Right.

Marty Fort: From Alice Cooper to Saint Petersburg Philharmonic to just all the big touring acts. Wicked, when Wicked goes through, Broadway productions, that kind of thing. And so, my point is, the fact that the parents of Vivaldi would get out and not only be ready to get their credit card out and put in the investment, which is not only the fee to Vivaldi, but to pay for hotels and travel and everything else.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Exactly.

Marty Fort: For New York, which is not cheap. Their passion is evident. I mean, that’s the proof positive. And my prediction is, live music is only going to be going more and more, especially as we’re coming out of COVID. You’re going to see concerts in any market, especially places like Houston, like every week. There’s such a backlog of.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Absolutely.

Marty Fort: Stuff that’s going to be happening because at the end of the day, technology is not going to kill live music.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Exactly.

Marty Fort: Also, one of the things I think it’s important for everybody to know today is, you just opened up your new location, what? About 10 months ago?

Zeljko Pavlovich: The newest location? Literally, a month ago.

Marty Fort: All right.

Zeljko Pavlovich: 2 months ago.

Marty Fort: Even during COVID, you were able to expand to your 4th location. I’m going to say that 2 times. Even during COVID, Vivaldi’s expanded to your 4th location. Action, not words, right? I mean, that’s the action. That’s the bottom line of where we’re headed and it’s the same with my schools. We hit 1,400 students in February. Then we had 1,500 right behind that in March. So, for anybody listening, if they’ve had a hard time, whether it’s COVID related or not, or they’re just struggling in their business, we’re here to spread the good news. And you know, Zeljko, with me, I’m a very honest person. I call it like I see it and when something’s bad, I say it’s bad. But when something’s good, I say it’s good. I just want to stress to everybody on this podcast that, and I’ve done this since 2008 with hundreds of people. So, I got a pretty good pulse on the industry. The future is very bright for all of us. Let’s go back in time a little bit. You and I still laugh and it’s hard for a lot of people to believe this story, but it’s absolutely true. In Music Academy Success, we don’t take everybody. Some of them are blocked out or some of them just don’t qualify because we do have an application and we do have a vetting process. The reason you and I still laugh to this day is that when you 1st applied to MASS, I said no. And you’re great at telling this story, so tell everybody that story. What happened? Take us through that.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Well, you know I was at the stage when I really wanted to talk to other music academy owners because as a novice, as a beginner, I really didn’t know what to expect. From the very, very basic things to something a little more serious, there’s nobody you can talk to. Nobody wants to talk to you. They look at you as a competitor and not in your town, right? So, I started Googling. I started researching and you popped up. Everything looked great and I was super excited, actually. And I sent in an email and applied. And then, to my big disappointment, they replied with, we can’t accept you because you don’t, basically, you don’t exist. And that is true because at that time, I didn’t even have a website set up yet. I didn’t have the location. So, it was in such early stages that I didn’t exist as a music academy owner. It was good and bad because I was super disappointed, but I thought, you know what? This is a real deal. This is not somebody just trying to take your money and they will accept you, anybody off the street and I saw a big value in that. You gained my respect right off the bat. But fortunately, for me, I think when I had my website up and I had my physical location and we had maybe 5 students or a couple of students, when I was legit, then I was accepted. I applied again and I was accepted. And the rest is history.

Marty Fort: Yeah. And it is true because there’s a lot of stuff out there. A lot of coaching programs, a lot of Facebook groups popping up and MASS is a legitimate program for over 10 years and we don’t work with just anybody. It’s got to be the right fit. You’ve now not only been super successful member of the program Zeljko. You actually coach with us now and I think that’s really cool and I really enjoy working with you. You also go with me to all our School of the Year visits. You and I have been to Los Angeles together and we’ve been to the West Coast. We’re going to Atlanta this year to see our School of the Year winner. I really enjoy our trips and we go and work with these schools for a day and spend time with them, take them out to dinner and have a press conference. A lot of mayors have shown up and a lot of people have gotten letters from their governors, all kinds of stuff. And if people go to musicacademysuccess.com, they can see the videos of my visit with you, the videos of the visits of others. But let’s talk about coaching. We talked about your musical background. We’ve talked about your teaching of upper level violin students at the college graduate level. But you coach with us now as a business coach. Tell us about your monthly calls that you do with Music Academy Success members each month.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Well, yeah. As you go through stages of being an entrepreneur and business owner, you realize that you want to share that knowledge, what you went through. And that’s really a big part of my being right now, is the desire to really share the knowledge. I want to prevent all the mistakes that I made. I want to tell people what worked for me. And I get a tremendous satisfaction of helping people. That’s very great and we work so well together. The system that you have and the way we set it up is absolutely fantastic. I get to talk to other music academy owners and it brings me such a joy to help somebody, to share my experience and to hear their struggles and work through that together. Yeah. I absolutely love it 100 percent.

Marty Fort: Well, you do a great job at it. We do higher level calls on advanced topics, dealing with difficult customers, leadership. We’re going to talk about your book in a second. You’re very good at the leadership realm. Again, give everybody a scope. You’ve got how many teachers working for you and how many office people working for you right now Zeljko?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Right now, we have probably over 300 faculty members and dozens of office members and management. The most important thing, I think in this, in that kind of fast growth is adaptation. You have to be able to adapt. So, my theme is growing. As we are right now, we are hiring for HR. And we are hiring marketing people and then, you have different teams to do different thing. And I think that’s one of the most important things as you grow to adapt and change. Yes, so hundreds of people work right now. The goal is to have over 1,000 employees in a couple years.

Marty Fort: And you’re going to get there. There’s no way you can do that without being able to delegate, which is another topic you and I discuss on the calls a lot, and also leadership. It’s important for everybody listening on the podcast, I had somebody yesterday, everybody’s got different goals. Right Zeljko? Some people join MASS and they just want to go from 5 students to 35. And 35 students for them is amazing and it makes them happy and that’s great. We’ve got people that want to go for 3,500 students. So, it’s important, the other similarity you and I share is I taught in my home for many years. I drove to student’s homes. I taught in university. I taught in community schools, elementary schools, fine art centers and when I started, I started with really nothing, then went to 30 students and grew from there. So, we understand every part of the journey wherever people want to go. It’s really up to them. As you know Zeljko, I’m a big believer in live events. We do numerous live events every year. We have our annual conference. We do different Masterminds. We had one in Los Angeles. We’ve got one in Cleveland this year. We do office staff training for office staff members, the people that have them or people that want to get office staff in their schools. We do advanced academies. We go to Disney World once a year with our top members. We went to Times Square and had a great meeting in New York, you and I. Got to play together at Steinway Hall in New York, which was awesome. 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes.

Marty Fort: There's a video of that on YouTube if you want to check it out. It’s great. We do a lot of stuff with our members in person and I’m a big believer in that. I told everybody yesterday that our conference coming up, our annual conference. It’s going to be the last time that we do hybrid because I want to get away from that. I don’t believe in, if you’re going to go to a conference, Zoom ain't cutting it. Conference is multifaceted, right. For somebody that’s never been to one of our conferences, they don’t understand that because they’ve never been, but between our keynote speakers, which we’ve had everybody from Randi Zuckerberg, the inventor of Facebook Live, CEO of Zuckerberg Media. We’ve got New York Times bestselling author, Dave Kirpan coming up. He’s just amazing. Of course, we’ve had Dan Kennedy. We’ve had Anna Hrach from Jay Bauer’s Convince and Convert agency. But then, as you know Zeljko, a lot of deals are done on lunch. They’re done at night. They’re done at the hallway. They’re done going out of town with friends. So, you speak at our events, but you also attend our events. For somebody that’s never been Zeljko, and doesn’t really understand what you and I are talking about because they never experienced it, what is a MASS event like and why should others attend?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Well, Marty, look. The 1st event I’ve ever been to, I mean, it was like Disney World for a music academy owner. I mean, it’s like Disney Land, Disney World because I know how hard it is to talk to just one music academy owner, let alone to have 200 people there, 200 music academy owners of all sizes. I mean, if you’re a small school, midsize school, if you have 50 students, if you have 10 students, if you have 900 students, find something and somebody there and it’s just incredible. And I cannot tell you. There are many conferences in this world in our network. There are many conferences, but there’s only one like MASS. I mean, there’s only one conference that you can see 200, 300 music academy owners. The other ones are, you know, you’re going to have a plumber, an electrician and somebody who owns hair salons and dentists. But no music academy owners. It’s incredibly valuable to all of us at any stage.

Marty Fort: I went to a national conference and as you know, you’ve got your business cards in your hand and you go out, you meet people and I, as a networker Zeljko, it’s kind of like fishing, right? I just talk to as many people as I can, right? Because you never know. One conversation could lead to hundreds of thousands of dollars. One conversation leads nowhere, but you give all of them a shot, right? 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yeah.

Marty Fort: And I remember this was a mixed conference of any kind of business owner could come. And I handed this woman my card and she looked at it. This is the 1st time this has ever happened. She said, well, you do music. I’m not interested and she handed it back to me. Yeah. So, there’s that. The thing with the Music Academy Success Conference is, and I love watching it as an observer, even I’m the host, right? Because I know it’s coming. It’s so amazing to see people come for the 1st time and their eyes getting the size of golf balls. Every single person is there to receive them. Every person is there to welcome them. It’s like instant coffee, instant bond. They’re immediately no longer a strange person in a strange land. They have arrived in their fraternity of music school owners and as you said, it doesn’t matter if they’ve only got 5. I think actually the smaller ones do better because they’re the ones that people are, they’re cheering for them. They’re in their corner. You know what I mean?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yeah, yeah. It’s incredible. As you were talking now, I remember the feeling I had the 1st time I went to the conference. I mean, I think my jaw was on the floor for 2 days. And then, the incredible people actually, such nice people that you meet. I mean, yes, there’s conferences with amazing information, but there’s lunch. There’s the dinner. There’s the after hours networking and talking and solving all your problems. I mean, you come back home from the conference and you are just, I mean, it’s like a package full of information and things that will last you for another year until the next conference. So, yeah. Thank you, Marty, for doing that. It is absolutely incredible.

Marty Fort: Well, you’re welcome and thank you guys for coming because we’ve sold out every year. Nashville’s sold out as well. We’ve already got next year booked and we keep raising the bar. It’s something I want known on this podcast that we are committed to the live events that MASS, Music Academy Success does. Nobody does it on the scale that we do it. From keynote speakers, to the meals, to the dinners, to the experiences, to everything else. Again, I’m just committed to getting them back in person. I am an author. You are an author. I’m the author of the number 1 Amazon best selling book, Ultimate Guide to Music Lessons. You are the author of Failure’s Not an Option. A wonderful book. I’d love to hear about it. So, for those that don’t know, tell us about your book, Failure’s Not an Option. What is it about? What does it mean to you and where can they get a copy? 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes, Marty. They can get a copy at zp@zpavlovich.com. I decided to write this book because I really wanted to share some of my experiences from going to zero students to thousands of students. And I went from a perspective of, I’ve been there and I wish I had that kind of book. And as I mentioned earlier in the call, I have this need to share this information to music academy owners. I really felt like I need to do that and it’s more for myself than for anybody else, right? So, the book is about, the book is for somebody who’s thinking about starting a business, somebody who just opened a business and who wants to grow a business. So, I put, for my experience, what I experienced and what I would do different, what I would improve if I was to talk to myself from back then to today. Yeah. Go check out the book. It’s mixed with my biography, from my beginnings and it really tells you how I went from zero to thousands of students. 

Marty Fort: Yeah. I loved the book. It’s awesome. Everybody should check it out. You are an interesting guest today Zeljko. We talk a lot on these podcasts about the concept of music mentorship that everybody pretty much listening to this is a music teacher, we would assume. Anybody’s welcome to listen to the podcast. We primarily attract music teachers, music school owners. And so, they understand music mentorship. They are music mentors to their students. You of course are a music mentor to the students you’ve had and have. But you’re also a business mentor with the coaching you’ve done with us and that you do with us. And the travels you make with me at events and be on our stage and that kind of thing. For those that don’t know what business mentorship, how would you define business mentorship and how would you compare it to music mentorship? What’s that all about?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes. Coming from a musical background, and I’m assuming most of our listeners today are musicians. So, we all had teachers and you all know how important it is to have a good teacher, encouraging teacher and it’s the same principle applies to business. We cannot do it alone because somebody else has done it and they found a better technique. They found a different way to do it because they’ve done it already. We don’t have to reinvent the wheel. There’re so many similarities that you can pull from your teacher at the university, from your mentor, to business mentor. It’s absolutely crucial. I mean, I really think that every successful entrepreneur, business owner, regardless of their success level, whether they’re a billionaire or a millionaire or whatnot, they all have mentors, even today. 

Marty Fort: And that’s completely true. Of course, you watch Shark Tank, as do I. 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Absolutely.

Marty Fort: Daymond John on Shark Tank. So, Daymond John has always been very up front about his mentor, which is Jay Abraham. I still get mentored to this day Zeljko. 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes.

Marty Fort: After this podcast recording, I’ve got a meeting with my mentor, which is my monthly meeting with him. I meet with him every month and I have met with him going on 12 years. Which as you know, a lot of people in MASS are celebrating their 10, 11 year anniversaries with me. But I want to talk about resistance Zeljko.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes.

Marty Fort: If we’re honest with ourselves. Nobody’s a musician that doesn’t have an ego. I mean, there’s definitely a way we’re wired and a way we’re constructed, right? I mean, if you’re going to have the courage to get on a stage, right? And perform with the risk of failing and problems and whatever else, there’s got to be a pretty strong ego, no matter how modest somebody is, right? If they’re honest with themselves, we’ve all got them, right? 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes.

Marty Fort: So, I think that ego leads to resistance and I’m curious your opinion on musician’s resistance. You know? Why do you think some musicians resist getting help with their schools, to grow them, to make them better?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Well, I think it’s, and you nailed it. I mean, that is correct. I mean, look. To be a musician, you have to have the right amount of ego and as long as we keep that ego in check and we sculpt it and we groom it to be helpful, it’s a good thing. So, I think being a musician really helps us become better business owners. And that is absolutely true. So, I think that as long as we groom that ego so it doesn’t become resistance, it doesn’t become your hurtle of receiving information ahead of people that are coming from different professions. That’s my personal opinion because we grew up having mentors. We grew up receiving that kind of information since very early age, or 6, or 7, or 8. So, we know how to receive information. We just need to groom that ego in the right way so we don’t become resistant to new information coming in. And look, I mean, doesn’t matter whether I have 3,000, 4,000, 10,000 students, you always have a mentor and multiple mentors. I think it’s extremely important to have different perspective, to have a different opinion, to bounce ideas off and that is something that should be part of our daily routine.

Marty Fort: Absolutely Zeljko and for me, and I think you would agree, the more successful we get, the more support we need, the more assistance we need. I get a lot of support even though I’m the coach of the group from the group.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes. Exactly.

Marty Fort: You’ve been with me now, it’s going on about 8 years. Why do you stay? Why do you hang around with MASS?

Zeljko Pavlovich: I mean, that’s a very easy answer to give. I need mentors, regardless of the size. I mean, we all need mentors and there’s such a bond and such a community amongst MASS members. I have so many friends, really good lifelong friends. And then, when we see each other at the conference, it’s incredible. So, yes. I will probably stay forever with MASS. There’s absolutely no doubt. I just cannot imagine actually, I cannot imagine running this show without MASS at any stage. It’s crucial to me. It’s as crucial right now that we are making millions of dollars and having many issues, as crucial as it was when I had 5 students. Absolutely no difference.

Marty Fort: That’s right. That’s right. It’s the whole thing of, any music mentor that’s a music mentor to others that hasn’t themselves had a business mentor, they really have to examine that. 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yeah.

Marty Fort: When they’re doing good, how much better could they do if they actually had not only a core mentor working with them, driving them and I think that’s important too. It’s important not to bounce. We all understand as teachers Zeljko, if you’re really going to learn from a master teacher. You don’t go to them for just 3 months. You don’t go to them for just 3 years. I mean, you really dive in and immerse yourself in their way and you want to have multiple teachers, of course. And at MASS, it’s the same thing. And it’s also what I’ve done for myself. Like I said, I worked with my core mentor now going on at least 12 years and I still have more to learn. There’s still more to be done. So, I think it’s a fascinating tandem. I’m going to make a book about it one day. I haven’t done it yet, but one day, it’s coming.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Please do.

Marty Fort: Because business mentorship gets a bad rap, as it should. Lame business coaches who have no business coaching.

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes.

Marty Fort: One of the things I tell people, a lot of my business coaches that are competitors have made life easy for me because they’ve sold their schools. 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Right.

Marty Fort: One of the 1st things anybody needs to ask a coach if they’re thinking about coaching is, do they still own their own schools?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Exactly.

Marty Fort: And if the answer is no, well, that’s a pretty easy decision. I still own mine. I’m still in the game. I’m so excited about the conferences that we’ve put together because there’s always, always, always new material, cutting edge stuff on the front. But it’s just a fascinating comparable between business mentorship and musical mentorship. Zeljko, we are running short on time. What are you excited about in the next 5 years? You talked about expansion, but you do a lot. You’re a dad, you’re an author, you’re a performer. What’s the kind of 5 year outlook? What are you excited about for Zeljko’s future?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Well, really excited about the next stage of the business, right? I’m at the point now where we have to innovate. We are growing. We are not planning on stopping that growth. I think there are a lot of opportunities out there and I love that saying and I’m not sure who said that, actually. But the saying goes, if you think you can, you’re right and if you think you can’t, you’re right. In the beginning, I thought, oh my gosh, you know? If I get to 300 students, I’m all set for life. But you don’t go straying in your abilities, your chops, as we say, right? Your chops improve and you realize that you can actually do more. So, you can touch more lives. You can create more jobs. You can help more people. You can create a legacy. At this stage, in the next 5 years, I’m planning on incredible growth. And it’s exciting. It’s exciting to see where the journey takes me. I’m excited to learn. I feel like I’m learning something new every day. Once I think, well, I think I’ve seen it all, I know it all, I think that’s when things start to go south. So, I don’t feel that. I hope I never feel that and I’m looking forward to going outside of Texas and expanding in different cities.

Marty Fort: Absolutely. Well, listen. I want to thank you for your time today. If someone wants to reach out to you and is interested in your work, especially guys, be sure to check out his book. Again, tell them again how they can get the book and if someone would like to reach out, how can they contact you?

Zeljko Pavlovich: Yes. They can reach out to me. They can go on my website, zp@zpavlovich.com. 

Speaker 2: Awesome.

Zeljko Pavlovich: That’s the best way to reach me.

Marty Fort: Awesome. Well, listen. Thank you for your time today. It’s been awesome to see your amazing work and I know the best is yet to come. There’s going to be amazing things coming. God bless you Zeljko. Thank you for your time and viva Vivaldi. 

Zeljko Pavlovich: Thank you so much Marty.

Marty Fort: Thank you. See you on the next podcast everybody.